Needle In A Timestack: Part 2
Make sure your cuticles and the back of your head are ready for their closeups with MeMe Wallace and Ansel Burch. They’re pop culture observers/ content creators/ new friends who are so ready to talk about why love and time are both drawn in the form of a circle.
MeMe and Ansel are diving deep for a full review of the movie, talking at length about the marvelous cinematography, layers on layers of meaning, and what you can learn by scrubbing through the movie looking for symbolism.
Find us online!
MeMe Wallace is @memetheactress on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. Check out her movies McKenzie McCoy and True or False.
Ansel Burch is @Indecisionist on Twitter and @TheIndecisionist on IG and Threads.
Join us next week when MeMe and Ansel get edutaining with things that stood out for them in Needle in a Timestack. Make sure you’re subscribed because all month long, it’s #Time2Party.
Episode Transcript
Ansel Burch 0:00
Hi. I'm Ansel Burch
MeMe Wallace 0:05
and I'm MeMe Wallace.
Ansel Burch 0:06
And it's time to party. This episode was recorded on July 23 2023. We are not doctors, we don't give medical advice. Please drink responsibly for crying out loud. Welcome. All right. Welcome, everyone to time to party. This is our third episode on a needle in a time stack. I keep saying on needle needle in a time stack the 2021 film featuring Leslie Odom Jr. Frieda Pinto's, to theater Rebo and others, including my favorite Nelson Rolando bloom. We've talked a lot about the movie, we've talked about recurring themes, we've talked about what we would use as drinking and smoking games, rules. But now, in our third episode, we're going to do a shallow dive into a piece of technology or object that we were interested in, in the film. And meaning before we get started, just real quick, is there anything you'd like to say to introduce yourself to the folks here in this third episode? I think we can assume that they have, probably in the two weeks, gone out and watched your movie by now.
MeMe Wallace 1:25
So I hope so. Um, I don't know. Like, what can I say that's different about me? I'm MeMe, and I really love beer. How about that?
Ansel Burch 1:35
Ooh. Are you like a craft beer snob, or do you like all beer all the time?
MeMe Wallace 1:42
I love a good IPA. Good. Oh, okay. You're
Ansel Burch 1:46
you and I would do very well in the liquor store as I like all of the other kinds of beer.
MeMe Wallace 1:53
No, I enjoy a good IPA. So I try all different ones. I like going to the breweries here in Chicago in the Chicagoland area. I try to go to as many different ones as possible. I think my favorite one so far is old Irving brewery. I love that place.
Ansel Burch 2:14
It's right up the street from me. Oh,
MeMe Wallace 2:16
there you go. I love that place. Also, they have one of my favorites there. So I like going there
Ansel Burch 2:23
friend of the show, Peter Carper. Le is a member of the band blood letter, and they just at time of recording released a new themed beer for his metal band, a different kind of hell, it is a Light Lager. So there we go. I'm going to be trying it out soon. I encourage all of you to hopefully it'll still be there in mid August. I don't know how much of it. They've rude that they do. As you mentioned, they cycle through pretty quickly. So get it while you can.
MeMe Wallace 2:52
It's so crazy, because I'll actually be there next Sunday. It was just like before we started recording the podcast. I was just texting my friend. We have a gig to do next Sunday. He's like, where do you want to go after? I was like old Irving it is. Heck yeah. So there we go. Well, fantastic.
Ansel Burch 3:07
That is a great fun fact. Yeah. So let's, let's talk about edutainment. Mimi, what did you pick? And did you have more than one thing that you were thinking about before you before he made your choice?
MeMe Wallace 3:22
No, I picked one thing. And I it was you know, I think that I mentioned it in the first episode. But my thing was the flip phone, the smartphone,
Ansel Burch 3:36
which makes perfect sense. It was the first thing I thought of as well. Which is why I was like I better have a backup This is to to do perfect. So would you like to go first or would you like to go second?
MeMe Wallace 3:52
Um, I can go first. Okay, go for it. So I picked the flip phone. And then it reminded me or it looked very similar to me to the Samsung Galaxy flip phone. Mm hmm.
Ansel Burch 4:08
The new one with the OLED screen. Yeah, yes.
MeMe Wallace 4:12
And I went and I started looking that up and that came out in February of 2020 is when they first introduced it, and they did like, Yeah, they did like a commercial or mentioned it during the Oscars. And so so that's when I first learned about it. I was like, Oh my God, I want one. And so when I watched the movie, that's immediately what I thought it was until I was like, again, I think I mentioned this first episode I was like it only had like three buttons on it. That can't be real. It can't be it but that's what it really reminded me of it. It looked exactly like it or a replica version of it.
Ansel Burch 4:58
Well, and they're making a ray are now they brought Razorback out of the mothballs with the same sort of seamless flip screen. Which also feels like a very similar design. So yeah, okay. You know, I had forgotten about that. I guess because when the first one came out, I wrote it off immediately. I was like, oh, that's that looks like it's gonna break. And nobody I know had one. And it's only in the last year that I really feel like I've seen people I know, having the like OLED flip open. See? Yes.
MeMe Wallace 5:36
Yeah, I've seen a couple of people with it. I think it's still catching on. You know, they also reminded me of the psychics when psychics came out. Oh, yeah. And so you could just like with your thumbs, flip the screen up and get to typing keyboard underneath. Yeah, in essence, it was a small iPad. Like, is that what it was? That's all I've had.
Ansel Burch 6:05
It has that one. Yeah, the one where you've got the like, there's one screen on the one side, and then you flip it open, and it's got the, like, tiny iPad inside? Yes.
MeMe Wallace 6:15
That's what it reminded. I thought it was very cool. But then there's also a version. Um, let's see, I don't think that phone. It didn't like flip. And then there was another phone. And it's an Android phone, where it's like, just like how you described it. So the screen is the touchscreen is on the front part. And then you flip it open. It doesn't bend, though. You just flip it over in. There are like two other screens. I don't know what this phone was. But it's like one of my old bosses had it. And I was like, Where'd you get this phone from? Like, what are you doing?
Ansel Burch 6:54
Hey, you know, our fascination with keeping tiny screens with us at all times knows.
MeMe Wallace 7:01
Right.
Ansel Burch 7:03
But what was your relationship with flip phones before that? Or did you did you do any other research into like, old school flip phones?
MeMe Wallace 7:10
No, I've had. I've been super interested. So in high school, I had a razor blade. Pack. Yeah. Yep. patha razor, had a sidekick. Also a T Mobile sidekick. You get all the good ones. And then there was also I don't know what it was called. And I still have the phone. Oh my God, I wish I could, like show you all this, but I still have it. It's um, it was just like a little push up phone. You know, it's like, oh, slight
Ansel Burch 7:41
ones. Yeah. I don't know. What was it called the Juke?
MeMe Wallace 7:49
I don't know what it was called. I had one of those where it's just the phone and then you just can slide it up. I don't know what that song was called. But I still have that. And so I think I've always had the fascination with phones, the phones that folded because I was just like, how are they still working? If you're gonna fold it over? But technology?
Ansel Burch 8:18
Yeah. Well, and apparently. Apparently, they're having a resurgence. I guess people are like, I'm too addicted to my cell phone. I need something that that doesn't do all of these things. So like people are buying flip phones again. Yeah, I
MeMe Wallace 8:36
think it's exactly what you just said. And in the fascination of phones. I think it's also like the marketing of it. People are constantly going out and getting the newest and latest updated version of, you know, an Android phone or an Apple phone. And so I'm like, it's only so many versions of the same phone that you can make. Right? So I would think when it comes to marketing, it's like what can we do to continue to get people to buy new phones, let's rebrand the phone and bring that back out. And I would not be surprised if they rebranded the sidekick and was like, Hey, let's just go back and see you know, whatever we can do to make sure people are still getting the updated newest technology.
Ansel Burch 9:25
Yeah, yeah.
MeMe Wallace 9:26
Well, and I also
Ansel Burch 9:27
like I guess there was this shift right when we went okay, so we had the like candy bar style the brick phones. Yeah. And then they introduced the flip part which was unquestionably cool. And we all wanted I think about that scene in hook where they they do the like, phone, Quick Draw competition at the beginning of the movie. So yeah, and then there was the slide style that was was the matrix popularized? Yeah. Like, it was almost like a gun cartridge coming out when they hit the button. Yeah. So and then there wasn't really a lot of change in cell phone form factor until smartphones until we had like the, the, the one flat screen which almost I don't know felt like Palm Pilot II to me. Yes. Because I don't know about you. But my first smartphone was a palm pilot I had in college, I had a flip phone, I had the like, construction style, heavy rubber, indestructible flip from my parents gave me like a little bit of money to buy a computer with. And I went to Dell. And I was like, Okay, how much money do I need to spend for a computer? And if you got a laptop, it was like redonkulous, it was just 1000s and 1000s. Yes. But a desktop was downright cheap. To the point where like, for the price of a laptop, I was able to get or less than the price of the laptop, I was able to get a desktop computer and a palm pilot. So I had one of those like little palm pilot pocket computers when I eventually left college and got out into the real world and decided it was time to upgrade. I got the Blackberry Storm. It was called and, and it was like it was it was a proper smartphone. But it had, you know all the like BlackBerry features on it. And that was my entrance point into smartphones. Did you did you jump straight to like iPhones or? No, no, I
MeMe Wallace 11:53
think I went through most of the phones because I think in college also, or maybe a little after. I had a Blackberry also, like I went from the flip phone. And then my mom upgraded and got a different phone. And so she gave me her Blackberry. And I was like I thought I was the coolest person ever. Oh, I have a Blackberry. And it had like the little What is it mouse pad in the middle? Which is Oh yeah. So I just thought I was everything. I think I did that. I had different types of Android phones for a long time. I still think this is my favorite phone. I had a phone, I think it was called a Nexus phone. And this, this screen was so big. I was just like, I think I still have a phone too. I think I started collecting most of my phones and just keep it up. But it
Ansel Burch 12:54
was really just shy of an iPad Mini cell phone.
MeMe Wallace 12:59
And I was like this is unnecessary. Why is this a cell phone? Because it did fit in my pocket. So yeah, I had that thought for a long time. I was an Android user. I feel like I should go back but I don't think I got an iPhone until I think it's only been like four years. That's it. Okay.
Ansel Burch 13:22
I am I'm an Android addict. I don't think I can ever switch over.
MeMe Wallace 13:27
Yeah, I was that person I was like I was at the point like what it's I like my Android phone.
Ansel Burch 13:33
I wonder if we're gonna get rid of cell phones altogether the the like handset brick style that we already have. Just because we you know we have Bluetooth earpieces, we have smartwatches you've got an iPad or some sort of tablet that you're going to carry around with you and you know we're entering an age. Different a couple of exciting announcements recently talking about how tablets and phones are soon going to be dockable with your like home computer setup. So instead of having a laptop and a desktop and a phone and a tablet, you have like one device when you get home, you'll plug it into the thing. And the thing will take your screen and put it on two monitors and let you plug in peripherals and do all the hard work that you have to do. But at the at its heart the one device is doing all of it. And I wonder if like you know if I've got a tablet in my backpack or bag or whatever. Why do I need another smaller version of the same thing? If I could have if I've got a watch that's got my texts on it and an earpiece? Yes, you're already carrying around this like whole electronics store worth of stuff.
MeMe Wallace 14:53
Exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's why I gave away most of my stuff or traded it back and I was like I don't need an iPad. I stopped wearing my watch. And I'm just like, I have a laptop and a phone, which is enough because now the phone is connected to the laptop. So when my phone rings, the laptop rings, and I'm like, this is already too much for me.
Ansel Burch 15:16
It's too many too many notifications in too many places.
MeMe Wallace 15:19
Yes, it's too much. I don't need this.
Ansel Burch 15:23
Awesome. Well, is there anything else about flip phones or cell phones in general that you wanted to talk about?
MeMe Wallace 15:29
Um, I think one of the thing that was just fascinating to me over time has been the cameras on the flip phones, how they are extremely advanced now. So you know, starting off, we have cameras on the flip phones, which was our introduction is that having a camera on your phone is extremely pixelated, I mean, extremely pixelated. And then just the technology over time how things have made me think about the movie also in just the flip phone and her recording and how those memories were super clear, is that I guess I'm referring to the memories of the recordings of the folios. super clear, and then just starting off with the the first flip phones how everything was pixelated, and it was hard to see. And just again, it goes back to time, like over time, you just see how everything is advancing. So I think that's always been my fascination with phones in general, but especially flip phones, how you had to manually do everything with the dialpad. Like texting, you know, it has to be like 333111 and like just to say bar, something like
Ansel Burch 16:49
that. Oh, man. The old t nine. Yeah, yes. So,
MeMe Wallace 16:53
um, I think that was enough. Just my fascination with that with the flip phones and the advancement of it and what they look like now that
Ansel Burch 17:02
well, that is a great shallow dive into flip phones, which are unquestionably the most like, ubiquitous piece of technology in this movie like, Absolutely. The the prime thing was cell phones and how, how really central they are to the character's life here. Yes, I looked into CAD software. Aided Drafting Yeah. If you're, if you're hip. So Nick is an architect, or at least that is the impression I get he at least likes to draw buildings. That's what we saw. Yes. It appears that his boss doesn't seem to be an architect. Now, how about a station, their speech that we have to sit through what three or four times does not seem to be about architecture, but Nick place was to be an architect. And so yeah, he so he's using this, this CAD program on his paper, computer thing that he's got, which is, dope as hell, I want to know what that is and how I get one. Exactly. So I looked up CAD. And I, I, I was blown away by how well okay, I'll I'll rephrase this. How old do you think computer aided drafting? could possibly be?
MeMe Wallace 18:26
Oh, that's a good question. Um, I don't know, 1520 years now.
Ansel Burch 18:33
So I would have guessed 30? I think I wouldn't.
MeMe Wallace 18:38
initial guess. Yeah. But then I was like,
Ansel Burch 18:41
I remember in high school, that CAD was a thing that people could learn about. And I think, if I remember correctly, I saw CAD, at one point, I don't remember how or why but I seem to remember interacting with it in some way. Like in those early like, try out the lame version of Photoshop that was available back then. Right sort of classes. CAD goes back to 1957
MeMe Wallace 19:16
Oh my god,
Ansel Burch 19:17
are you serious? Yeah. 1957 if Wikipedia is to be believed, which is bananas?
MeMe Wallace 19:27
Possible?
Ansel Burch 19:30
So the early versions of CAD, like obviously now computer aided drafting, we think about like occupying 3d space and doing full 3d renderings. Back then, what they used CAD for primarily was measuring. So the idea was okay, I'm going to I'm going to draw in I'm going to write up the parameters of the building that I want to design or the piece that I want to design it was used for, like industrial manufacturing. and they would use the CAD program to do all of the like measurements and, like, testing of the idea like, Okay, if you're going to, I get the impression it's not laid out in the article that I read, but I get the impression that the reason you would use it originally was like, Okay, if I build a building that is this dimension by this dimension, using the using this material, will it hold up? Right? So it's more of a like, you know, doing doing the math sort of side of things. It eventually became more of like a primitive wireframe thing where you could like draw basic technical drawings. But it was still pretty much just the same as doing it on paper. You just, you know, it was all measured by the computer, and you'd get a very exact architectural drawing afterward if you went to the trouble of putting it in. But 3d wireframes here's the here's the next one. 3d wireframes were introduced in 1969. Oh, wow. I how, like, weren't they still doing punch cards that that that's like, because
MeMe Wallace 21:15
I'm trying to figure out what was 3d in 1969?
Ansel Burch 21:19
What does 3d even mean in 1969?
MeMe Wallace 21:23
I'm still I'm trying to figure that part out. Like it's 1969. What are you talking about 3d?
Ansel Burch 21:28
Yeah. Yeah, so apparently, yeah, you could develop interactive 3d models on computers in 1969. M AGI released Cynthia vision, the first commercially available solid modeler program.
MeMe Wallace 21:48
What I tell you to look this up, as soon as I'm going on a deep dive,
Ansel Burch 21:54
i was i My mind was blown. And what's really interesting is like, if you look at the Wikipedia article, it goes, Okay, history. First, first CAD 1957, the spent a lot of time doing 2d well into the 70s. I mean, you can still use CAD for 2d now. 3d comes out in 1969. So 12 years takes to go from from whatever the original was to 3d renderings. Full mathematical representation of freeform surfaces 1989. And then there's not really anything different between that 1989 entry. And today.
MeMe Wallace 22:41
I'm very fascinated by this or now. So
Ansel Burch 22:44
yeah, either whoever wrote this Wikipedia article, just did not care about anything between the midday and between the late 80s. And that's enough. Yeah, they're like, Yeah, you don't care about but yeah, so they talked about how like, Okay, now there's, you know, 3d modeling is become the norm, it's found. Even even applications for the wide public can do 3d modeling pretty easily, like you can you can design things, I think about the birth, or the proliferation of 3d printing nowadays, right? Like, yes, that on a cheap computer, you can easily download a program that will let you design a 3d device model, and then print it, which is stunning. But I think the thing that really caught me about this and it was the thing that caught me in this movie as well, is okay, so computer aided drafting, or computer aided design is something that like, you know, it has become pretty ubiquitous, like everybody has access to this technology, if you've got, if you've got a computer, you can probably do some level of 3d design. Exactly. Even if you don't have the, even if you didn't have the skills before you could learn them, right? Pretty Correct. Yeah, with with the apps that are available, but the thing that we see so often in movies and representations of future tech is this idea of existing in the space with the 3d model, right, like having it either like holographically projected or putting on a pair of like AR goggles and walking through the space. And even in this movie, you know, we're in the future. There's time travel, they've got nicer phones, they're still driving same Tesla's weirdly Yeah, Tesla's perfect don't need to move at all. Everything else slight changes. But yeah, so there's this this idea of okay, we're in we're in some some version of the near future. And he is still on his like magic paper drawing pad, doing CAD. The same way, like it's still a 2d representation that becomes a 3d model that He is drawing more or less by hand using using tools from within his software. But he's not like interacting with the 3d space, he's not projecting it up. I think about like Tony Stark, the way that he can sort of, you know, pull up the holographic representation of his of his armor, and then like, pull pieces off and throw them in the recycle bin. Or even Well, no, that was 2d, not 3d. I was thinking about minority report where he had the little glove finger things that let him the computer track him in real space.
MeMe Wallace 25:49
Oh, right. I'm like, I know, you have to go back and watch Minority Report. Yes, I know. It was
Ansel Burch 25:54
a good movie. Yeah. But yeah, so one of the things they talk about in this article, in fact, it's the the, the majority of the article is talking about future state for CAD. And they talked about how, despite the fact that, you know, this probe, this material, this style of computer program has been out for so long, we still don't have a way to interact with it in true 3d fashion, we're still doing 2d projection of these 3d models. And part of that is just because like AR goggles make a lot of people sick. It's really hard to render the space that quickly it's, you know, those sorts of things are really a big challenge that CAD has not overcome yet, as well as how do you. Okay, if you put on the VR goggles, and you're interacting with your 3d model? How do you get the fine motor skills? To then actually do any designing with it, as opposed to just seeing it? Like, if I wanted to go, Okay, I'm in the 3d space, and I need to build my building? Do I? Yeah. Am I wearing like haptic gloves? Do I need like a screen within the screen? Do you like how do you how do you interface with the, with the actual work of it, as opposed to just seeing the model?
MeMe Wallace 27:22
Yeah, you know, I think about that every time I see a movie, and it has that element of 3d animation or something in it, I also think about that, you know, especially if they don't have, you know, the full explanation of it, like, Okay, this is 3d, how did you build it? You know, usually you just see, like, the actor pointing at things and then doing something with their hands or whatever. But I'm like, where the gloves were like,
Ansel Burch 27:51
yeah, there's this. How's it doing this?
MeMe Wallace 27:53
Exactly? What do you How did you know? How did this come about it because you get telling me, and I'm like, I don't know, that you just stood there and and the things we're doing the things and like
Ansel Burch 28:09
we talked about the Star Trek movie, the 2009 Star Trek movie last month. And I think it's like, at least on the movie side of things, it's very similar problem to the like, screens and displays that they have in in Star Trek, where like, okay, the actor has to reach out and touch this button, and then the button has to change, to reflect that you touched it. And it's so interesting to me the way that they do that, because, you know, the actor has to be able to touch whatever, right? Like, there's no way for you to, as a designer for that piece of the set to know exactly every movement that that actor is going to make, especially if the director like changes their mind, like if, if before they were going to shoot from the right side of the thing. And so the button needed to be on the left. So there was, you know, you could shoot across, if they flip that camera move in on the day. Now the button needs to be on the other side. And so like how do you anticipate that in the way that you design these like reactive displays? And I think it's very similar to like, Okay, if you're going to have something come up in 3d space, and the actor is just going to like poke at the air.
MeMe Wallace 29:27
I was about to say that because essentially, that's what happens often on sets, like actors are basically miming. Especially when you have like those extreme, like CGI versions of the animations and movies, it's just actors miming and pointing at the air, you know, usually that's just how it is on sets anyway, because there's most of the time there is no technology in real life that is based on you know, what the what they have In the movies, yeah, so what's it's a bunch of pointing and pretending like they know what they're doing?
Ansel Burch 30:06
Well, this has been a great conversation. Mimi, I really appreciate all of the heart and spirit that you brought to the conversation today and for the last couple of weeks. I'm so excited for people to hear our conversation and I do hope that we're able to have you back but for now, I think that is it for time to party. Next week, we will have an outtakes episode full of all the bloopers and digressions that didn't fit into the main episodes. But otherwise friends at home we will we will see you again in September. Until then, Mimi, where can people find you online?
MeMe Wallace 30:40
You guys can find me on the socials @MeMEtheactress thats MEME ACTRESS on Instagram and Twitter. I think that's all I'm on a call like.
Ansel Burch 30:56
That seems like plenty you can find me at indecision just on Twitter and at V indecision ist on Instagram and threads Special thanks to April Maraba for our podcast art and to Marland longet of Marlon and the sheiks for our amazing theme song This has been an Indecision is production. Show notes and transcripts are available at indecisionist.com/time2party and until next time, friends, wherever you are in the time stream, be excellent to each other
MeMe Wallace 31:25
and party on. Party on dudes
Ansel Burch 31:29
party on dudes
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
